is proud to present the following interview to Sir
Tim Rice, the acclaimed lyricist of "Evita".
Tim Rice began his professional life with the intention
of being a solicitor, but very soon wound up working for
EMI records and became the man behind the unforgettable
lyrics of many famous musicals such as "Joseph and
the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat", "Jesus Christ
Superstar", "Evita", "Chess", of
popular Disney movies like "The Lion King", "Aladdin",
and stage productions like "Aida" and "Beauty
And The Beast".
His work has won him numerous awards including 12 Ivor
Novello Awards, 4 Tonys, and 3
Tim was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1999
and was knighted in 1994. During the Broadway run of the
"Jesus Christ Superstar" revival in 2000, he had
a total of four shows playing simultaneously on the Great
White Way, a record later equalled in Japan when, with the
opening of "Aida" in December 2003, he had four
shows playing simultaneously.
Tim will be discussing with us how "Evita"
came to life, the Oscar winning song "You Must
Love Me", previous titles of the classic number
"Don't Cry For Me Argentina",
the Alan Parker movie and of course he will be sharing with
our readers his thoughts about the Queen of Pop.
MadonnaTribe: Tim, thank you very much for agreeing
to be interviewed by MadonnaTribe!
Tim Rice: No problem at all.
MT: Legend says that the original idea
of creating a musical about the life of Eva Peron came to
you by hearing a ten minute radio program in your car about
her in 1973.
What were the elements that made you clearly see that there
was substantial material for a successful musical?
TR: Well I don't know, it was just the
story that appealed to me when I heard this bit on the radio
and I thought we were lucky at the time, we had a hit with
"Jesus Christ Superstar", and we were wondering
what to do next.
I thought, this is a very interesting story and I can't
remember if I immediately thought if this is something we
can do as a musical.
But I certainly wanted to hear the full program, because
I only heard a small extract from the program.
I heard about 10 minutes of it, and I missed the beginning.
As soon as I managed to hear the repeat of the program,
I realized it was a great story and then gradually I thought
that this is something that maybe we could work on.
MT: Let's focus a moment on "Evita",
the movie which was released in 1996. You were asked to
write a new song for the movie and you came up with "You
Must Love Me", an oscar winning composition.
What is the idea behind the song and how was it conceived?
TR: The song was really just like all
the songs in Evita.
They aren't written so much as songs but as episodes/scenes
in telling a story, so in the original version, there was
a lot of semi-sung dialogue, perhaps that's a bit unfair
on it, but it was quite a complicated musical passage between
Peron and Eva, which I think the director felt wouldn't
translate very well onto film.
So we decided to simplify that
and put in a new song, which also gave us a shot at getting
the Oscar because you can only win an Oscar with a new song.
I guess that was as much the reason as anything.
We wanted a song that showed Eva's thoughts as she was coming
to terms with the fact that she was going to die.
And Madonna performed it great in the movie...
She did it very well, yes. It was a good record and
a good performance and I was very pleased that it won the
Oscar. I thought it was very bad luck on her that she wasn't
nominated for an Oscar.
MT: She did win the Golden Globe...
TR: Yeah, that was good! I was there
the night she won that.
MT: Aside from "You
Must Love Me", what was your involvement in the film?
TR: Not a lot, to be honest. Directors
don't really want writers hanging around. I complained about
one or two minor things like lyrical changes, but they were
ignored, and I thought "well, there's not much point
in getting my knickers in a twist here".
I let them get on with it really.
I mean, there were one or two things in the lyrics which
I thought were stupid changes, but very minor ones, that
nobody would have noticed. But people do this, I think people
feel they have to do to put their mark on it or something,
MT: This leads to the next question.
What do you think about "Another Suitcase in Another
Hall" sung in the film by Madonna? It helps establishing
the character of young Eva. Do you agree with this choice?
I'm a bit ambivalent about that one, I thought it worked
for Madonna and she did it very well of course and it gave
her another shot at a hit record.
But it kind of takes away one of the strands of the story,
that Peron was working through lovers and people he was
using just the way that Eva was.
I mean, she's still in the film, she had like one line.
But a bunch of people used to say in the original work that
the song (Suitcase) was kind of stuck in and it didn't really
work because it was slightly out of context, but I never
quite thought that was the case. I thought it was a nice
song and that it was a good scene and just because Eva wasn't
singing the song didn't mean that it wasn't an important
scene for Eva.
But I guess it kinda worked with Madonna singing the song,
but I would have thought it would have been… perhaps
I would have gone for would been to have Madonna sing one
verse of it, and then maybe give the full song to the girl
later turning it back onto Eva.
It worked, I wasn't too upset about that.
MT: "Don't Cry For Me Argentina"
has become a classic now. Can you share with us some of
your memory of the day you wrote the lyrics of such a powerful
How did the song come to life?
TR: The lyrics were written over a period
of time, it was quite a difficult one to get right.
The title came almost at the very end. The title would cause
a lot of problems because we just didn't know what to call
the song, and we briefly flirted with the idea of trying
to make it a song that would work out of context, that could
be taken as a love song as well.
It had some terrible titles like "It's Only Your Lover
Returning" and also "My Wild Days".
There exists a version of Julie Covington's on one of Andrew
[Lloyd Webber]'s compilation CDs where her version of the
song singing "it's only your lover returning"
and it just doesn't work.
It's exactly the same in every other respect, same lyrics,
same orchestration, the same vocal. But when you got a bad
title, it kills the song. In
the end, the line "don't cry for me Argentina"
was used elsewhere in the show very early on, and everybody
thought that was a nice line, so we made that the title
of the song.
The song in itself almost doesn't make sense.
I mean, "Don't cry for me Argentina" is a whole
song but in a way, it's not meant to, it wasn't written
as a song, it was written as a scene in a show.
It's meant to be a string of political clichés, sounding
pretty, and not really saying very much. But it kind of
worked, bizarrely, it worked as a song out of context.
So, in the end, we got the hit we originally tried for in
the wrong way.
During her successful re-Invention tour 2004, Madonna not
only re-invented her repertoire of classic songs but also
added to the show one of the most beautiful moments of Evita:
"Lament". Did you happen to see the show and what
do you think of "Lament" re-Invented?
TR: No, I didn't actually. I
just never got around to seeing it. Sheer idleness, I think.
I heard that she did the "Lament" that way and
apparently did it in an electric chair. To be honest, I
just never got around to seeing it I can't remember, maybe
the timing just wasn't right.
I think the DVD is coming out later this year...
TR: Oh great, I'll see it then.
MT: What was your idea about Madonna before Evita
and did the film experience make you change your perception
TR: I don't think really, no. My idea was
that she's a very talented artist. Her music was very strong
and several of the songs were clearly out of the ordinary
pop songs, they were songs that would last beyond her interpretation
of them. I think
it's fair to say that musically, I far prefer her earlier
stuff to her later stuff.
I have one of the Don't Cry For Me Argentina mixes in the
car and I get so high from it, which surprised me because
I'm so used to hearing this song slowly.
Ha ha, it's quite nice to hear it speeded up a bit, occasionally,
because it is a long song (haha).
You attended the Evita premiere in London in December 1996,
did you have any memories from that occasion. Were you nervous
to see the final result of Alan Parker and how he dealt
with your work?
TR: I don't think I was nervous at all, to be honest.
I hadn't seen it before.
I'd seen a little clip of it which I thought was very good.
I was marvelly intrigued, really, it was like going to see
I don't remember much about the evening really. There was
a party afterwards which I certainly went to, but you know,
most of the fuss was around Madonna, who was actually there.
But that was fine, I was delighted somebody else took much
of the flack.
MT: I remember seeing the movie premiere
in Los Angeles.
And when your name came up in the credits at the beginning
of the movie, everybody did this huge applause and clapping,
and I thought that was really cool.
TR: Oh really, haha!
worked with Sir Elton John on the songs for Disney's Lion
King so you got to know him very well.
Elton recently commented on how Madonna supposedly doesn't
sing live in her shows. What do you think about that?
TR: I haven't seen her shows recently.
I can't comment, I don't know if she sings live or not.
I'm sure she sings live a lot of the time.
But if you're leaping around and dancing and doing those
things, it's impossible to sing live. A live performance
doesn't necessarily mean just live singing, you got to leap
around and you want the choreography and all that, then
I think that it's fair enough to mime.
It's physically impossible, I think.
I think you can technically say it's a live performance
even if you are lip-syncing some of it, providing you're
doing something else. Basically, I'm not a mega-fan of choreography
anyway. I find choreography pretty boring, generally.
Obviously, brilliant choreography, in reasonable doses,
is gripping but most of it is pretty boring or whatnot.
Personally, I would rather hear somebody sing live most
of the time, or all of the time.
But if they don't, and they want to push the dancing, that's
But I don't think it really matters if people mime to their
own voice when they're doing something else.
MT: Which is your own favourite song or theme from
TR: I don't know. it's difficult to judge
your own stuff, and it varies a lot.
You sometimes think one song is quite good and then you
think another one is, and then you think they're all terrible
or whatever. But I've always quite liked "High Flying
Adored", that was a nice song... what else...
It kind of works as a whole, I tend not to think of it as
It's always nice to hear one or two
on the radio, which one does occasionally but most radio
stations are fairly unimaginative and nearly always only
play "Don't Cry For Me Argentina".
I think I'd probably say "High Flying Adored"
is my favorite.
MT: There was one time I was playing that song
in my car, and I was already emotional and it kind of
got me sad...
TR: Oh, I'm sorry about that! (haha)
MT: Oh (haha)
no problem, it's a song that reminds me of people who
grow up and nobody knows who they are, and that's why
it made me feel that way.
Is there something about the film you don't like or a
particular scene you think could have turned out better?
TR: No, I think Alan [Parker]
did a great job. My only comment is the one or two minor
lyrical changes that I did touch on.
There was one bit where they changed Che Guevara's line
from "no money"… I think it starts off
as "Eva Peron had every disadvantage you need if
you're going to succeed" and the original lyric is
"no money no class" and that was changed "no
money no cash" and I pointed this out when I first
heard the soundtrack and I said "this is obviously
a mistake and Antonio Banderas has misheard the lyric
and it's obviously not "no money no cash" because
that's the same thing".
And I was told "no, that was deliberate" and
I said "well, that's the same, you can't change that,
And then anyway, that was half the point. She was lower
class and they said "oh well no, she had a lot of
class" and I said "but of course she had one
sort of class but the class that Magaldi was referring
to was that she was lower class, working class".
Also, she was 16/17 so she hadn't had time in her life
at that point to become classy and even if she had, Magaldi
wouldn't have really noticed it.
So (the answer is), the line by Che Guevara, referring
to her affair with Magaldi.
I thought that was just plain stupid.
There's another one, equally stupid, where Person says
in roundabout the time when he's in exile, he said something
about "I can see us sitting on the terrace"
and a bit about "breakfast in bed" and "doing
crosswords and that sort of thing" and that was changed
to "doing nothing", and I said "you know,
why did you change that?" And I didn't really get
an answer to satisfy me.
Something about "crosswords are a very middle-class
occupation" and I said "well, Peron was very
middle class", and I like the idea of them just sort
of idling the time away doing crosswords which means in
effect doing nothing.
It says it, I think, more subtly than just plain doing
nothing because they weren't doing nothing, they were
just living a very idle life, or dreaming about the possibilities
of living an idle life.
But generally speaking, I thought it was very well shot.
I thought Madonna was terrific. I thought Jimmy Nail was
outstanding, he was great.
[Banderas] was very good, a little bit of a problem hearing
some of the words at times.
I think in "The Lady's Got Potential" I couldn't
really make out what was going on. But it didn't matter,
I think it's only the people writing the words that really
care if you hear all the words. Most people, you know, just
let them drift by.
MT: Well that's it, thank you so much for
spending your time with us to be interviewed
TR: No problem at all! Thank you
MadonnaTribe would like to thank Sir Tim Rice for his kindness
and for giving people the gift of so many incredible lyrics that
will be cherished for good.
Interview conducted by Angie Hung
Written by TheImmaculate and Angie Hung
Copyright 2005 MadonnaTribe